Legislature(2005 - 2006)SENATE FINANCE 532

06/01/2006 01:30 PM Senate SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON NATURAL GAS DEV


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ SB2003 NATURAL GAS PIPELINE CORPORATION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ SB2004 STRANDED GAS DEVELOPMENT ACT AMENDMENTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
      SENATE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON NATURAL GAS DEVELOPMENT                                                                     
                          June 1, 2006                                                                                          
                           1:38 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Chair Ralph Seekins                                                                                                             
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Al Kookesh                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Con Bunde                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom                                                                                                  
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Charlie Huggins                                                                                                         
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
SENATE BILL NO. 2003                                                                                                            
"An Act establishing the Alaska  Natural Gas Pipeline Corporation                                                               
to finance,  own, and manage  the state's interest in  the Alaska                                                               
North Slope  natural gas  pipeline project  and relating  to that                                                               
corporation  and  to  subsidiary entities  of  that  corporation;                                                               
relating to owner entities of  the Alaska North Slope natural gas                                                               
pipeline  project, including  provisions concerning  Alaska North                                                               
Slope natural gas pipeline  project indemnities; establishing the                                                               
gas pipeline  project cash reserves  fund in the  corporation and                                                               
establishing the  Alaska natural  gas pipeline  construction loan                                                               
fund in the Department of  Revenue; making conforming amendments;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 2004                                                                                                            
"An  Act relating  to the  Alaska Stranded  Gas Development  Act,                                                               
including  clarifications or  provision  of additional  authority                                                               
for  the  development  of stranded  gas  fiscal  contract  terms;                                                               
making a conforming amendment to  the Revised Uniform Arbitration                                                               
Act; relating to municipal impact  money received under the terms                                                               
of  a  stranded  gas  fiscal   contract;  and  providing  for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB2003                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: NATURAL GAS PIPELINE CORPORATION                                                                                   
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
05/31/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - HELD ON SECY'S                                                                   
                         DESK                                                                                                   
06/01/06       (S)       NGD AT 1:30 PM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 2004                                                                                                                 
SHORT TITLE: STRANDED GAS DEVELOPMENT ACT AMENDMENTS                                                                            
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
05/31/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - HELD ON SECY'S                                                                   
                         DESK                                                                                                   
06/01/06       (S)       NGD AT 1:30 PM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BONNIE HARRIS, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                       
Division of Oil and Gas                                                                                                         
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2004.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN JARDELL, Legislative Director                                                                                             
Office of the Governor                                                                                                          
PO Box 110001                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK 99811-0001                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2004.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH DONAHUE, Counsel to the Governor                                                                                         
Preston Gates & Ellis                                                                                                           
420 L Street, Suite 400                                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK 99501-1971                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2004.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN B. PORTER, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                           
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
PO Box 110400                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0400                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2003 and SB 2004.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JIM BALDWIN, Counsel to the Office of the Attorney General                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0300                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2003.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LOUISIANA W. CUTLER, Counsel to the Governor                                                                                    
Preston Gates & Ellis                                                                                                           
420 L Street, Suite 400                                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK 99501-1971                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2003.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM                                                                                                        
State Capitol                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on SB 2003.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RALPH  SEEKINS  called the  Senate  Special  Committee  on                                                             
Natural Gas Development  meeting to order at  1:38:05 PM. Present                                                             
at the  call to order  were Senators Lyda Green,  Thomas Wagoner,                                                               
Albert Kookesh, Kim  Elton, Donny Olson, Con  Bunde, Ben Stevens,                                                               
Gary Wilken,  Bert Stedman, Fred  Dyson and Chair  Ralph Seekins;                                                               
Senator Lyman Hoffman arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:38:10 PM                                                                                                                  
        SB 2004-STRANDED GAS DEVELOPMENT ACT AMENDMENTS                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS announced SB 2004 to be up for consideration.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BONNIE  HARRIS, Assistant  Attorney General,  Department of  Law,                                                               
introduced Joe Donahue,  who has worked on the  amendments to the                                                               
Stranded Gas  Act; Jim  Baldwin, to explain  the last  portion of                                                               
the  proposed amendments  which  deal with  the Municipal  Impact                                                               
Fund; and Kevin Jardell, to answer policy questions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN  JARDELL, Legislative  Director,  Office  of the  Governor,                                                               
presented  a  brief history  of  the  Stranded  Gas Act  and  the                                                               
administration's  position regarding  its authority  to negotiate                                                               
the contract.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:43:53 PM                                                                                                                    
He said  the administration has  acknowledged from  the beginning                                                               
that some of  the contract provisions were  outside the authority                                                               
granted to it by the Stranded Gas Act.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:44:42 PM                                                                                                                    
The  question of  what  authority  would be  needed  to move  the                                                               
project forward was unclear until  the contract was complete. Now                                                               
that there  is an  agreement between  the administration  and the                                                               
sponsor  group, the  administration is  asking for  the grant  of                                                               
authority to allow it to  put the contract before the legislature                                                               
for review.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JARDELL said  that when  the administration  passed out  the                                                               
fiscal interest finding, it detailed  the contract provisions for                                                               
which the  administration needed  authority. The  legislation now                                                               
before  the  committee is  intended  to  give the  administration                                                               
enough authority  to renegotiate contract terms  after the public                                                               
hearings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:47:25 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE  asked if  Mr. Jardell was  talking about  SB 2004,                                                               
version A [labeled 24-GS2046\A].                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. JARDELL replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:47:58 PM                                                                                                                    
JOSEPH  DONAHUE,  Preston  Gates  & Ellis  LLP,  Counsel  to  the                                                               
Governor,  explained sections  1-11 of  the bill  as follows.  He                                                               
said  that these  provisions are  primarily driven  by two  major                                                               
policy decisions made by the  administration during the course of                                                               
negotiations of the proposed fiscal contract.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The first decision was for the  state to become a full commercial                                                               
partner in the  project. That decision had  three components: the                                                               
state would  take an  equity position in  the pipeline,  it would                                                               
take royalty  gas in-kind  for the duration  of the  contract and                                                               
convert its production tax payments  to gas in-kind payments, and                                                               
it would take a shipping position on the pipeline.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:49:33 PM                                                                                                                    
The second was  the decision to incorporate  oil fiscal certainty                                                               
into the proposed fiscal contract.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:49:56 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. DONOHUE  said that Section  1 is  the purpose section  of the                                                               
original Stranded Gas Development  Act (SGDA). The new components                                                               
of  the   fiscal  contract  incorporate  the   revised  Petroleum                                                               
Production  Tax (PPT),  Payment in  Lieu of  Taxes (PILT),  and a                                                               
provision  that  incorporates  oil   corporate  income  into  the                                                               
corporate income PILT provisions.  Therefore, the first provision                                                               
expands the  scope of the fiscal  terms and relates it  to all of                                                               
the sponsors' and other parties'  business activity in the state,                                                               
regardless of whether it is  tied to the actual implementation of                                                               
this project.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:51:42 PM                                                                                                                    
In Section  1, page  2, paragraph (2),  the term  "related party"                                                               
has been added  and is defined in  Section 16 of the  bill as "an                                                               
entity that  is affiliated with  a qualified sponsor that  owns a                                                               
portion of the  project and is an intended  beneficiary of fiscal                                                               
certainty under the proposed fiscal  contract." The related party                                                               
concept  ties  to  the  midstream  entities  that  will  own  the                                                               
mainline,  the gas  treatment plants,  and  the gas  transmission                                                               
lines.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:53:12 PM                                                                                                                    
Section  2.  AS  43.82.020,  revisits  some  primary  negotiation                                                               
topics  identified  by  the  original act  and  expands  them  to                                                               
include express authority  for payment of gas  production tax in-                                                               
kind  [paragraph  (3)]. Paragraph  (4)  authorizes  the state  to                                                               
negotiate acquisition  of and ownership  in the project,  as well                                                               
as terms  relating to collateral  agreements authorized  under AS                                                               
43.82.437.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE explained that changes  in paragraph (1) of 43.82.020                                                               
are intended to clarify that  oil fiscal certainty can be granted                                                               
regardless of whether  the particular entity is  involved in this                                                               
project, or the earnings being protected arise from it.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:55:23 PM                                                                                                                    
Changes in paragraph  (2) reflect a broadening  of the provisions                                                               
that the Commissioner of Revenue  and the Commissioner of Natural                                                               
Resources  can  negotiate.  Once  negotiated and  in  the  fiscal                                                               
contract, they would supersede any  conflicting provisions of oil                                                               
and gas leases and unit agreements.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:57:03 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE  asked if the  agreements in Section 2  are subject                                                               
to legislative ratification.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DONOHUE replied  that they  refer  to existing  oil and  gas                                                               
leases  drafted pursuant  to statutory  authority and  subject to                                                               
the contractual relationship with the producers.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:57:46 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS asked  whether the terms would have  to be modified                                                               
in the contract.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked whether the  final version of the contract is                                                               
still subject to legislative ratification.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:58:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE noted that ratification  happens at the very end of                                                               
the process.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:59:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DYSON  referenced Section 3  on page  3, and asked  if it                                                               
means  that  the  commissioner  can change  oil  taxes  that  are                                                               
already established in statute.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE replied yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  DYSON asked  how long  that  provision has  been in  the                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE  said it has  been there for  a couple of  months and                                                               
directed him to the appendix I version.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:01:52 PM                                                                                                                    
Paragraph  (2)  of  Section  3, line  7,  makes  this  subsection                                                               
conform to the rest of the changes proposed to AS 43.82.220.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Paragraph  (6), line  19, repeals  the terms  and conditions  for                                                               
administrative  termination of  a  contract  under AS  43.82.445.                                                               
That  has  been  replaced  with a  purely  contractual  procedure                                                               
(Article 28 and Article 5).                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE continued  to paragraph (7), line  21, which broadens                                                               
the commissioner's  authority, providing greater  flexibility and                                                               
less  technical density  than in  the  long-form SGDA  conforming                                                               
amendments bill in appendix I.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:05:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON said  his understanding  is that  the language  in                                                               
paragraph (7)  is not  needed for anything  in the  contract now,                                                               
but  is inserted  in the  Stranded  Gas Development  Act in  case                                                               
additional  changes are  made  between  now and  the  time it  is                                                               
presented to the legislature.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DONOHUE replied  that it  is  intended to  substitute for  a                                                               
"laundry  list"  of  paragraphs  that  do  reflect  articles  and                                                               
provisions  in  the current  fiscal  contract.  It also  provides                                                               
flexibility in case other changes are necessary.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:06:22 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 4,  page 3, proposes  a new subsection (b)  to 43.82.200.                                                               
It relates  to Article 26 of  the fiscal contract, exhibit  C and                                                               
provides mandatory dispute resolution procedures.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:07:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  SEEKINS   asked  Mr.  Donohue  to   describe  the  state's                                                               
sovereign immunity.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DONOHUE answered  that sovereign  immunity  is a  common-law                                                               
concept going  back to the  sovereigns of England.  It originally                                                               
meant that you could not sue  the king, but changed eventually so                                                               
that  you could  sue him  in a  special court  of equity.  It has                                                               
evolved  into a  doctrine that  says the  legislature can  define                                                               
those actions that can be brought against the state by citizens.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:10:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked if,  by waiving  our sovereign  immunity, we                                                               
are allowing  someone to sue the  state on issues related  to the                                                               
contract.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE  replied no, that  it relates only to  the producers'                                                               
rights to sue the state if  it fails to pay an arbitration award.                                                               
If an  award is unpaid  365 days after  an attempt to  collect in                                                               
the  State of  Alaska,  the producers  can file  the  award as  a                                                               
judgment  in  another state  and  pursue  the state's  assets  to                                                               
satisfy the judgment.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS asked  Mr.  Donohue to  confirm  that waiving  the                                                               
state's sovereign  immunity is a  different thing from  giving up                                                               
the state's sovereignty.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE replied that it is different.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JARDELL interjected that, every  time the state allows itself                                                               
to be sued, it technically waives its sovereignty.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DONOHUE   continued  with  Section   5,  page   4,  amending                                                               
43.82.210(a).  These changes  are part  of a  pattern to  make it                                                               
clear that  oil fiscal certainty  can be considered  and proposed                                                               
in a contract  and submitted to the legislature  for final review                                                               
and authorization.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:11:02 PM                                                                                                                    
He said Section  6, page 4, amends 43.82.220(a)  to clarify that,                                                               
in  the  event  of  a  conflict, the  provisions  of  the  fiscal                                                               
contract preempt the conflicting provisions  in oil and gas lease                                                               
or unit agreements.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He pointed  to the article  [Article 23] in the  current contract                                                               
that  relates to  Point Thomson,  as  an example  of a  potential                                                               
conflict.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:12:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DYSON  asked if  this  provision  applies only  to  SGDA                                                               
applications that met the deadline a year or two ago.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DONOHUE   said  yes,  with  few   exceptions,  the  proposed                                                               
amendments  would   be  retroactive  to  the   beginning  of  the                                                               
application  process January  1, 2004.  If this  contract is  not                                                               
approved  however, then  these will  be the  new standards  going                                                               
forward  and the  legislature  will  have to  amend  this act  to                                                               
create a new filing deadline.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:14:15 PM                                                                                                                    
Senator  Wagoner commented  that will  be  true only  if the  new                                                               
contract is negotiated under the Stranded Gas Development Act.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE agreed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:15:57 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. DONOHUE explained that page  5 contains further amendments to                                                               
43.82.220(a), which  reflect a move away  from long-term purchase                                                               
and sales  agreements. Instead,  the state  is making  a shipping                                                               
commitment for 20  percent of the gas, the combined  total of RIK                                                               
and PTP.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:17:13 PM                                                                                                                    
Paragraph (2),  line 18,  makes it clear  that the  provisions of                                                               
the  fiscal  contract dealing  with  some  of the  upstream  cost                                                               
allowances  the  state has  agreed  to  pay,  and which  are  not                                                               
allowed under  statute or  in the oil  and gas  lease agreements,                                                               
will be authorized.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:18:52 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. DONOHUE  said that  Section 7  broadens 43.82.220(c)  to deal                                                               
with more than just Royalty issues.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Section 8 adds  a new subsection (e) that  says decisions related                                                               
to taking royalty  gas in-kind are not subject  to the provisions                                                               
of AS 38.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:20:10 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 9 amends language in AS  43.82.250 related to the term of                                                               
the contract,  but the  underlying term limit  is still  35 years                                                               
and may not exceed 45 years from the effective date.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN arrived at 2:21:22 PM.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE  continued to Section  10, page 6, which  is intended                                                               
to  make the  actual operation  of the  work commitments  article                                                               
consistent with the underlying statute.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Section 11 adds a new  section 43.82.437, which authorizes a type                                                               
of collateral  agreement called a coordinating  arrangement, that                                                               
would tie  the overall fiscal  agreement with  qualified sponsors                                                               
who are the production subsidiaries,  to the parent organizations                                                               
and the affiliates that will actually implement the project.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:24:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
This  section  also  deals  with   the  establishment  of  Alaska                                                               
Pipeline  Corporation (a.k.a.  Alaska Pipe,  PipeCo, AK  Pipe), a                                                               
public corporation  that would finance  and own various  parts of                                                               
the  project.   In  order  to  make   the  corporation  effective                                                               
immediately, it  authorizes a modified  quorum rule  allowing the                                                               
two commissioner  members to act on  behalf of the board  for the                                                               
first 120 days.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:26:19 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR SEEKINS asked who the commissioner members are.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE responded  that they are the  Commissioner of Revenue                                                               
and  the Commissioner  of Transportation  and Public  Facilities.                                                               
Five public members  are provided for in the  legislation and, as                                                               
they are appointed, will have an equal vote.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:26:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  quoted a portion of  Section 43.82.437, subsection                                                               
(a), page 6, beginning on line 20, which reads:                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
    The Commissioner of Revenue, with the concurrence of the                                                                    
  Commissioner of Natural Resources, may negotiate collateral                                                                   
   agreements.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He  asked if  that means  the Commissioner  of Natural  Resources                                                               
must  concur  to  negotiate,  or must  concur  in  the  agreement                                                               
reached by the Commissioner of Revenue.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONOHUE replied  that this relates to  agreements between the                                                               
state and any  other entity, unlike subsection  (b), which refers                                                               
to agreements  between a public  corporation and  other entities.                                                               
So,  the answer  is that  the Commissioner  of Natural  Resources                                                               
would have  to concur with any  agreement reached as a  result of                                                               
negotiations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:28:05 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM BALDWIN, Counsel to the  Attorney General's Office, explained                                                               
that  Section 12,  page  7,  gives the  parties  to the  contract                                                               
assurance that  municipal taxes and  assessments can  continue to                                                               
be paid directly to the municipalities.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:29:24 PM                                                                                                                    
Section  13 provides  for the  accounting and  custody of  impact                                                               
payments amounting to $125 million.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Section 14  establishes a  "Grant Fund", which  is an  account in                                                               
the General Fund,  to receive those monies.  Subsection (e), page                                                               
9,  lines 6-10,  outlines the  purposes for  which grants  can be                                                               
made.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Section 15  extends the life  of the Municipal Advisory  Group to                                                               
cover  the  period throughout  which  grant  funds will  be  made                                                               
available.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Section 16 was discussed earlier.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:32:36 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BALDWIN   said  that   Section  17   makes  it   clear  that                                                               
arbitrations within the  state are provided for  under the Alaska                                                               
Uniform  Arbitration  Act,  but   carves  out  an  exception  for                                                               
arbitrations that are authorized under the SGDA.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Section 18 repeals AS 43.82.445.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Section 19 is  a technical change correcting  the section heading                                                               
of 43.82.220.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN went  on to Section 20, page 10,  which provides that                                                               
Sections 1-12,  15, 16,  and 18  of this  act are  retroactive to                                                               
January 1,  2004, and that  Section 17 is retroactive  to January                                                               
1, 2005.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Section 21 makes this act effective immediately.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:33:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON went  back to  Section  14, page  8, lines  20-21,                                                               
which  says that  the department  "shall adopt  regulations under                                                               
which   economically   affected  municipalities   and   nonprofit                                                               
organizations may apply  for and be eligible  to receive grants".                                                               
He  said that  "nonprofit organizations"  is not  defined in  the                                                               
definition section,  and wondered if  it is defined  elsewhere in                                                               
law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:34:40 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BALDWIN replied that the  intention is to make eligible those                                                               
nonprofit organizations  that act  in a  quasi-municipal capacity                                                               
in the unorganized borough. There  are such organizations and the                                                               
state contracts with  them regularly, so the intention  is not to                                                               
write a  particular region  out of  the state  out of  getting an                                                               
impact grant provided they can document a sufficient impact.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  noted that Mr.  Baldwin is talking about  a subset                                                               
of  nonprofit  organizations   that  provides  quasi-governmental                                                               
duties, and asked  if there is a reason the  language of the bill                                                               
does not  speak to that  subset rather than the  broader category                                                               
of nonprofits.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN replied  that he  thinks it  would be  beneficial to                                                               
amend the language to make that  clearer and offered to help with                                                               
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:36:28 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BEN  STEVENS pointed  out  that  on  page 9,  lines  5-6                                                               
specifically  identify   "nonprofit  organizations   serving  the                                                               
unorganized borough".                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:37:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN directed Mr. Baldwin's  attention to page 7, lines                                                               
29-31, which  amend the  term "revenue-affected  municipality" to                                                               
read "economically  affected municipalities", and asked  if there                                                               
is a difference between those terms.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  replied that the  terms are defined in  the Stranded                                                               
Gas   Development  Act.   He   said   that  a   "revenue-affected                                                               
municipality"  can  also  be  "economically  affected",  but  the                                                               
reverse may not be true.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN then directed him to  page 8, line 24 and asked if                                                               
any  thought has  been given  to defining  the phrase  "direct or                                                               
severe impact".                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  answered that he  hoped it would be  further defined                                                               
in regulation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN  asked  if  it  would be  appropriate  to  add  a                                                               
requirement  into the  bill that  a definition  of the  phrase be                                                               
included in the regulations.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN answered that would be a policy call.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:39:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN  asked Mr.  Baldwin how  the process  described in                                                               
subsection  (e), page  9,  lines  2-14, would  work.  He said  it                                                               
appears that the grant request would  be submitted in a report to                                                               
the  legislature during  the first  10 days  of the  session, and                                                               
then go  through the  department to  the municipal  action group,                                                               
which  would  advise  the commissioner  whether  the  request  is                                                               
appropriate. He asked if that is correct.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN responded yes, the  relevant Municipal Advisory Group                                                               
makes a  recommendation that the  proposed expenditure  meets the                                                               
needs of the section.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN asked  where the report due to  the legislature is                                                               
addressed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN directed him to subsection (d) on page 8, line 27.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN asked  if the grant request first  surfaces in the                                                               
first 10 days of every session.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS said  that he thinks the legislature  gets a report                                                               
of where grants have been given.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN  confirmed  that  the report  is  submitted  to  the                                                               
legislature after the fact.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN  questioned the  language on  page 8,  lines 29-30                                                               
which  reads  "a list  of  all  municipalities and  organizations                                                               
determined by the department to be eligible for further grants".                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALDWIN  responded  that  the  report  includes  a  list  of                                                               
meritorious requests that were not funded due to a shortfall.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:41:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN  asked if the  committee could get  a step-by-step                                                               
description  of  how  the  grant  process  works,  including  how                                                               
decisions are made regarding impacts.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:42:36 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked  why page 9, subsection  (f), restricts the                                                               
use of grants to retire municipal debt.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN  said that  it is  a policy  call, but  the rationale                                                               
behind it  is that  it does  not further  the public  interest to                                                               
incur new debt to pay preexisting  debt. Grants should be used to                                                               
cover new impacts, but obligations  initiated after the beginning                                                               
of the  grant program might be  covered at the discretion  of the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOFFMAN countered  that the  language seems  to prohibit                                                               
both previous and future debt.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALDWIN agreed,  but said that the language is  modeled on an                                                               
existing  grant  program  in  response  to  the  request  of  the                                                               
Municipal  Advisory  Group. He  reiterated  that  it is  open  to                                                               
policy determination by the legislature.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:45:11 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN  said the  total amount  of grant  money available                                                               
over  6 years  is $125  million,  and if  it were  used to  cover                                                               
existing municipal debt, it would be eaten up very quickly.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
At ease from 2:45:58 PM to 2:55:24 PM                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:56:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN  directed Mr.  Baldwin to  a handout  [Chapter 82.                                                             
Alaska   Stranded  Gas   Development  Act],   Section  43.82.520,                                                             
subsection  (b),  paragraph  (1),   which  reads  "the  share  of                                                               
payments  to  revenue-affected  municipalities  should  be  given                                                               
priority  over payments  to economically-affected  municipalities                                                               
with due  regard to the  anticipated size  of the tax  base", and                                                               
asked if he  could explain the differences between  the two types                                                               
of municipality.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:58:19 PM                                                                                                                    
STEVEN  B. PORTER,  Deputy Commissioner,  Department of  Revenue,                                                               
responded   that  economically-affected   refers  to   unexpected                                                               
impacts to  the communities during  the construction  phase, when                                                               
there  is  no revenue  being  generated.  These are  the  impacts                                                               
addressed  by the  $125  million impact  funds  in the  contract.                                                               
Revenue-affected   communities  are   those   that  have   taxing                                                               
authority.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN thanked  Mr. Porter for his  explanation and asked                                                               
whether he could provide it in writing.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER said  that he would have the lawyers  elaborate on his                                                               
explanation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  said that  SB 2003  and SB 2004  will be  open for                                                               
public testimony over  the weekend, so he  would close discussion                                                               
on SB  2004 for now  and open discussion  on the PipeCo  bill, SB
2003.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He asked whether the members of  the committee would like to hear                                                               
from  anyone in  particular  on these  matters  when they  return                                                               
after the weekend.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:01:25 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER  requested that the  Chair ask Legal  Services to                                                               
have Jack  Chenoweth review the  document and report back  to the                                                               
committee on Friday.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  suggested  that  the  Chair  ask  Kevin  Ritchie,                                                               
Executive  Director  of the  Alaska  Municipal  League (AML),  to                                                               
provide the  committee with the municipalities'  reaction to some                                                               
of the provisions.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER said  that  Steve Thompson,  Chair  of the  Municipal                                                               
Advisory  Board,  might  be  willing  to  attend  or  to  send  a                                                               
representative.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OLSON suggested that the Chair invite Kathy Wasserman.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS Closed discussion on SB 2004.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:04:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
            SB 2003-NATURAL GAS PIPELINE CORPORATION                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS opened SB 2003 for discussion.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN  B. PORTER,  Deputy Commissioner,  Department of  Revenue,                                                               
offered  an overview  of  the bill  and  introduced Louisiana  W.                                                               
Cutler to provide a detailed analysis.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He said that the general  intent of the legislation is threefold:                                                               
to hold the  state's equity interest in the  natural gas pipeline                                                               
project, to finance  that project through revenue  bonds or other                                                               
forms, and to participate as  an active member in the corporation                                                               
that is formed to build the pipeline.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The  state  is  a  participant   in  this  project  with  private                                                               
corporations   that  expect   to  partner   with  other   private                                                               
corporations, so SB 2003 attempts  to create a public entity with                                                               
as  many private  attributes as  possible.  It needs  to be  both                                                               
stable  and   independent,  so  the  board   comprises  only  two                                                               
commissioners and  five public members  who are appointed  for 6-                                                               
year terms.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:07:16 PM                                                                                                                    
Because  the  private corporation  will  sometimes  have to  make                                                               
decisions  quickly and  cannot  necessarily  comply with  certain                                                               
Open Meetings Act (OMA) requirements,  it is exempt from the OMA.                                                               
As  a public  entity,  the  corporation will  be  subject to  the                                                               
Public  Records  Act, but  because  it  is dealing  with  private                                                               
corporations   that   are   used    to   a   certain   level   of                                                               
confidentiality, the legislation specifies  that certain types of                                                               
information will remain confidential.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
In order  to provide the  state's partners with the  assurance of                                                               
long-term stability,  the statute  includes a provision  to allow                                                               
the corporation  to negotiate  terms of  performance obligations.                                                               
For example, if there is a  material adverse change to the former                                                               
structure of the corporation that  affects its ability to perform                                                               
its obligations under the contract,  there are certain damages or                                                               
changes that could be made by contract.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:10:15 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.   PORTER   explained   that   another   provision   addresses                                                               
indemnification  and exempts  the corporation  from AS  45.45.900                                                               
and any  common-law document  that provides  that indemnification                                                               
agreements in construction contracts are against public policy.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:12:23 PM                                                                                                                    
How the  financing would occur has  been dealt with in  Section 7                                                               
of the fiscal interest finding and the attached finance plan.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:13:02 PM                                                                                                                    
The pipeline is routed through  Canada and a subsidiary in Canada                                                               
may need to have a different  legal structure, so the bill allows                                                               
Alaska Natural  Gas Pipeline Corporation, (a.k.a.  PipeCo, Alaska                                                               
Pipe, or AK Pipe), to create subsidiary entities as needed.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:13:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WAGONER  asked  if  the  administration  had  looked  at                                                               
merging  PipeCo  and  Alaska Natural  Gas  Development  Authority                                                               
(ANGDA) into the same basic structure.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER  responded that the  administration spent quite  a bit                                                               
of time evaluating that, but the  spur line that ANGDA is lead on                                                               
is  itself a  Mega Project,  and  one entity  cannot manage  both                                                               
projects effectively.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:16:02 PM                                                                                                                    
LOUISIANA W. CUTLER, Partner, Preston  Gates & Ellis, provided an                                                               
abbreviated section-by-section analysis.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Section  1 lays  out  the  findings of  the  legislature for  the                                                               
establishment  of the  public  corporation.  She highlighted  the                                                               
following findings:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Findings  (1)  and  (2),  point   out  that  the  corporation  is                                                               
implementing  the   purposes  provided   in  Article  8   of  the                                                               
Constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Finding (9) says that it is  in the state's best interest to take                                                               
an  ownership interest  in  the pipeline  and  to participate  in                                                               
financing and construction of the project.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:19:55 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 2,  page 4,  amends AS  41 by adding  a new  chapter that                                                               
establishes the  corporation as a  public corporation  within the                                                               
Department  of Revenue,  but with  a legal  existence independent                                                               
and separate, so  that the liabilities of the  corporation do not                                                               
become the liabilities of the state.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:21:18 PM                                                                                                                    
The dissolution Section 41.42.015, page  4, beginning at line 19,                                                               
is  pretty  typical  language  for   the  creation  of  a  public                                                               
corporation, except that this corporation  has the power not only                                                               
to issue bonds,  but also to enter into other  types of financing                                                               
arrangements,  such as  loans. Subsections  (b)  and (c)  specify                                                               
that no  member of  the board  or officer  of the  corporation is                                                               
entitled to a share of the corporate assets.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:22:26 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE  asked if  appointments to  the governing  body are                                                               
subject to legislative confirmation.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER replied  that the  administration  suggested that  no                                                               
legislative confirmation  be required,  but that  it is  a policy                                                               
call. She  pointed out that  the commissioners of  Alaska Housing                                                               
Finance   Corporation  (AHFC),   Alaska  Industrial   Development                                                               
Authority  (AIDA),  and  the Alaska  Permanent  Fund  Corporation                                                               
(PFC)  are  not  subject   to  confirmation  either.  Legislative                                                               
confirmation is only required for  commissioners of ANGDA and for                                                               
the railroad.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:23:19 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE asked  whether the  public  members referenced  in                                                               
subsection (c) would serve staggered terms.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER replied yes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE suggested  to the  Chair that  the committee  look                                                               
further into requiring legislative confirmation.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS recalled  that members of the board of  the PFC are                                                               
insulated from  being fired except  for cause, and  asked whether                                                               
that is written into this legislation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER responded that it is  provided for in the section that                                                               
deals with removal  and vacancies on page six,  beginning at line                                                               
22.  The  intent   of  the  provision  is  to   ensure  that  the                                                               
corporation  operates   as  independently  and   apolitically  as                                                               
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:24:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  jumped back to  Section 1, subparagraph  (B), page                                                               
2, line 28, and asked if  there is anything in this bill limiting                                                               
state  participation  in financing  to  only  the state's  equity                                                               
share.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER replied  that he does not know of  anything that would                                                               
limit its level of participation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:26:18 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER  proceeded to  Section 41.42.020 on  page 4,  line 29,                                                               
which determines  the composition of  the board and the  types of                                                               
expertise required in its members.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:28:07 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if the members have to be Alaskans.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER replied no.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:29:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN  asked whether the  language in  subparagraph (A),                                                               
page   5,  line   3,  precludes   a  city   counsel  or   borough                                                               
assemblyperson from serving on the board.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER replied  that it is not intended to  do so, but agreed                                                               
that it is ambiguous and might need correction.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:30:23 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY DAHLSTROM asked  whether board members could                                                               
be Canadians.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER   replied  that  the   bill  contains   no  residency                                                               
requirements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:31:33 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER reminded the committee  that, as Mr. Porter indicated,                                                               
this corporation's need to hold  meetings might be different from                                                               
other public corporations. Section 41.42.030  on page 5, line 25,                                                               
provides  for meetings  "at the  call of  its chair"  and exempts                                                               
these  meetings from  the specific  notice requirements  provided                                                               
for in AS 44.62.310-44.62.312 Open Meetings Act.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:33:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  noted that in  subsection (d) of this  section, it                                                               
requires the board to have only  one public meeting per year, and                                                               
if the intent is for the board  do as much as possible in public,                                                               
that direction to the board does not seem appropriate.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER replied  that  the intent  is to  have  at least  one                                                               
public meeting a year, although  the administration would be open                                                               
to more than that.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:35:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE  asked if the  board is  required to report  to the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER answered yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:35:30 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS  pointed out that  all of  the meetings of  the PFC                                                               
Board of  Trustees are public and,  if there is reason  to do so,                                                               
they  dismiss into  executive session.  He asked  why that  model                                                               
would not work for PipeCo.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER  replied that  the  PFC  model  is good  for  regular                                                               
quarterly meetings, but  the board needs the  flexibility to meet                                                               
quickly if necessary and might not have time for public notice.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS asked  why subsection  (b), page  5, lines  11-14,                                                               
provides  for  a  member  to  designate  a  deputy  or  assistant                                                               
commissioner to act for him.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER explained  that  it is  common  for commissioners  to                                                               
designate a deputy  commissioner to act on  their behalf, because                                                               
they  participate  in  so many  corporations  that  meetings  may                                                               
conflict.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:37:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WILKEN  said that he  is concerned  about teleconferenced                                                               
meetings in  which voting might  take place on  important issues.                                                               
He reminded the committee of  the problems created last year when                                                               
the retirement board made some  multi-million dollar decisions by                                                               
teleconference. He wondered whether it  would be wiser to require                                                               
physical attendance for votes on issues of major importance.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER suggested  that this  be handled  in internal  policy                                                               
rather than in  statute. He also pointed out  that decisions will                                                               
be made  by the board  in concert with  the other owners  and are                                                               
likely to  have been considered  in depth by  the time a  vote is                                                               
taken.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN  asked  Chair  Seekins to  flag  this  issue  for                                                               
further discussion.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:40:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  CUTLER  added  that  many  public  corporations  do  conduct                                                               
business by teleconference.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
She  also explained  that, regarding  public meetings  versus the                                                               
requirements of  the OMA, she did  not mean that there  would not                                                               
be  public  meetings  conducted,  but that  the  specific  notice                                                               
requirements of the OMA for having meetings would not apply.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:42:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  OLSON   asked  whether   the  board  members   would  be                                                               
compensated for attending meetings via teleconference.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER answered yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:43:20 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE said  that they should not qualify for  per diem if                                                               
they are attending by teleconference.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER responded that it is the legislature's call.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE asked  if  the  Chair would  flag  this issue  for                                                               
future discussion.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER said  that the  way  the PipeCo  board members  would                                                               
qualify  for  per  diem  for   meetings  is  specified  under  AS                                                               
39.20.180 and is the same as for every other meeting.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:43:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BEN STEVENS  asked Ms.  Cutler whether  this corporation                                                               
would be operating under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER said  she believes that it would not,  but will double                                                               
check.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  OLSON referred  back to  Senator Bunde's  question about                                                               
per diem, and asked if  the $400 compensation [Section 41.42.040,                                                               
page 6] is actually per diem.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE said  that there is per diem and  a $400 honorarium                                                               
and that, in  his earlier question, he was  actually referring to                                                               
the honorarium.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER  said that  she did interpret  his question  that way,                                                               
and directed  the committee to page  6, lines 7-8, which  read in                                                               
part, "A  public member of  the board  is entitled to  receive an                                                               
honorarium of $400  for each day or  portion of a day  spent at a                                                               
meeting of  the board". She said  she thinks that a  member would                                                               
qualify for the honorarium whether  he attended by teleconference                                                               
or not.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS  said that the requirements  of the Sarbanes-                                                               
Oxley  Act  are onerous,  and  the  committee  needs to  be  sure                                                               
whether or not the state will be subject to it.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER  responded that  she  believed  PipeCo would  not  be                                                               
subject  to Sarbanes-Oxley,  but she  would verify  that and  get                                                               
back to the committee.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:46:03 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER  resumed her  analysis at  Section 41.42.035,  page 6,                                                               
lines 1-5. She  said that this provision is  typical and requires                                                               
the board  to provide copies of  its minutes to the  governor and                                                               
Legislative Budget  and Audit Committee (LB&A).  Minutes shall be                                                               
made  available to  the public  after redacting  any confidential                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 41.42.040  on compensation  and per  diem was  covered in                                                               
earlier conversations.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:47:32 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER pointed  out that the "for cause"  standard in Section                                                               
41.42.045 on  removal and vacancies  is not always in  the public                                                               
corporation model.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Section  41.42.050 allows  the board  to delegate  supervision of                                                               
the administration  to the executive  director. She  directed the                                                               
committee's  attention  to the  last  sentence  in that  section,                                                               
which reads, "The  board may delegate to  its executive director,                                                               
officers, and  agents of the  corporation such powers  and duties                                                               
as it considers necessary or  desirable." and explained that this                                                               
is included  in the  interest of giving  the corporation  as much                                                               
flexibility as possible.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:49:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS asked whether this  language would give that person                                                               
plenipotentiary  power   to  obligate   the  LLC   without  board                                                               
approval.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER  replied no.  The board may  delegate such  powers and                                                               
duties as it determines are necessary and desirable.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS asked  whether the  board  could conceivably  give                                                               
that person the  power to act to approve a  contract without full                                                               
board approval.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER answered  that it could, but the intent  is to provide                                                               
for smooth operations.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:52:15 PM                                                                                                                    
She agreed  that the  language is broad  and the  legislature may                                                               
want to look at it more closely.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER added  that he cannot think of a  situation in which a                                                               
board  would  want   to  delegate  that  much   authority  to  an                                                               
individual, but they could.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  said that  he is reminded  of the  caution Senator                                                               
Wilken brought  up earlier about a  board that may not  have been                                                               
operating in a particularly responsible fashion.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER went  on to Section 41.42.060, page  7, which requires                                                               
the board to  employ an executive director who  can employ staff.                                                               
Again, this provision is fairly typical.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Section  41.42.070  provides that  the  attorney  general is  the                                                               
legal counsel for  the corporation. It does not  preclude the use                                                               
of outside counsel.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:54:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  said he is a  little bothered by the  word "shall"                                                               
in that  section, on line 28.  He asked what would  happen if the                                                               
corporation seeks counsel on a  permitting question, for example,                                                               
and the  attorney general is already  representing the permitting                                                               
entity.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:55:23 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER  replied that  it happens  frequently, and  the Alaska                                                               
Bar Association has published an  opinion that specifically deals                                                               
with it.  They have  stated that  the Department  of Law  is just                                                               
like any  other big  law firm and  that they are  able to  set up                                                               
walls to deal with potential conflicts such as this.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:56:57 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 41.42.080, page 7, provides  that the board is subject to                                                               
the conflict  of interest  law and  that certain  disclosures are                                                               
required  if  they have  any  interest  in  an entity  that  does                                                               
business with Alaska Pipe, or an owner-entity of the project.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:57:28 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. CUTLER said that Section  41.42.200, page 8, just repeats the                                                               
purpose of the corporation.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Section 41.42.210 enumerates the  powers of the corporation, most                                                               
of which are  common to public corporation models  in other state                                                               
statutes.  She  went on  to  explain  the  points in  which  this                                                               
section may not be typical.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Paragraph (7), page 8, line  29, allows the corporation "to issue                                                               
bonds or  incur other financing  obligations to carry out  any of                                                               
its  corporate  purposes  and powers".  Often,  corporations  are                                                               
allowed only to issue bonds, but  the expectation in this case is                                                               
that there will be multiple financing arrangements necessary.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:58:55 PM                                                                                                                    
Paragraph (8), page  9, lines 3-7, provides  that the corporation                                                               
can obtain  any ownership interest  required for the  project, in                                                               
any way that it needs to.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Paragraph (11), lines 16-20, allows  the corporation broad powers                                                               
to   carry  out   its   corporate   purposes  including   owning,                                                               
constructing, managing or operating the project.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Paragraph (16) provides  the power to enter into  and perform its                                                               
obligations  under  contracts  or  other  transactions  with  any                                                               
government   or  private   organization.   Subparagraph  (D)   is                                                               
specifically written  to deal with  a situation in which  the LLC                                                               
itself  may  end   up  spinning  off  an   entity  to  facilitate                                                               
financing.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:01:23 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE asked if revenues earned  by the LLC or PipeCo flow                                                               
directly to the General Fund or go through the LLC.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER  replied that  the LLC would  pay dividends  to Alaska                                                               
Pipe. Those  could go into  the General Fund and  be appropriated                                                               
back out as program receipts, or  be made "directly to any person                                                               
specified by the corporation" (paragraph (23), page 11).                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  said  that  sounds   almost  like  the  power  of                                                               
appropriation,  and  asked the  Chair  to  flag the  section  for                                                               
further discussion.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER said  that there  are currently  bond issuances  that                                                               
work this way.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS asked  Mr. Porter if he could get  someone from the                                                               
bond department to comment on that.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER said  he certainly could. He continued to  say that it                                                               
is common  for revenues that come  back out of the  stream to pay                                                               
off  the bonds  prior  to  the remainder  going  to the  dividend                                                               
stream into the General Fund.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said it seems as  if the LLC should  have a budget                                                               
and the legislature should fund the budget.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER  said that  the operating budget  would be  subject to                                                               
appropriation.  This section  is focused  on paying  other issues                                                               
such as financing.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:05:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  CUTLER commented  that Alaska  Pipe is  not itself  the LLC.                                                               
Alaska Pipe will hold the  state's membership interest in the LLC                                                               
along with  the producers' affiliates; but  eventually there will                                                               
be a  dividend stream from the  LLC, which will flow  back to its                                                               
members.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  said that the  revenue would probably go  first to                                                               
pay bond  indebtedness and  then to the  General Fund,  and asked                                                               
Senator Bunde  if he preferred  that the  bonds be paid  from the                                                               
General Fund.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:06:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE replied  that it  needs  further exploration.  The                                                               
bonding requirements might call for a more direct flow of funds.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER  said that the  court has recognized an  exception for                                                               
payment of  bond debt [Alaska  Constitution, Article  IX, Section                                                               
11],  so   this  isn't  an  unusual   practice.  The  legislation                                                               
specifically applies AS 37.07 to  the operating budget in Section                                                               
41.40.410, and also specifically  provides, in Section 41.42.440,                                                               
paragraph (2),  line 26, that  the program receipts  section does                                                               
apply to the corporation.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said that,  when the  legislature approves  a bill                                                               
that has program receipts in it,  it is approving the fiscal note                                                               
as well.  It sounds as if  these program receipts would  not come                                                               
before the legislature for approval.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:08:11 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PORTER  asked Senator Bunde  to turn to Section  41.42.410 on                                                               
page  19,  line 15,  where  it  states  that the  corporation  is                                                               
subject to the  provisions of AS 37.07 for  its operating budget.                                                               
The intent is for the corporation  to come to the legislature for                                                               
approval of  the operating budget.  The only question  is whether                                                               
the  bondholders  get  paid  directly,  before  the  money  flows                                                               
through the General Fund.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:08:32 PM break 4:25:27 PM                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  said that they  would consider amendments  to this                                                               
bill after public testimony is heard over the weekend.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER jumped to page 10,  paragraphs (19) and (20). She said                                                               
that these  two provisions are  not always  identified separately                                                               
in public  corporation statutes  lists of  powers, but  have been                                                               
singled out here in order to  make sure that this corporation has                                                               
all of  the powers  it needs. It  can enter  into indemnification                                                               
agreements against its own assets, not against state assets.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:27:44 PM                                                                                                                    
It can  also enter into  confidentiality agreements with  its LLC                                                               
and other partners.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:28:09 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER said that the stability  of Alaska Pipe is of critical                                                               
importance  to  both  the administration  and  the  LLC  members.                                                               
Because the  public process is  different from that of  a private                                                               
corporation, there is  a concern that its  governing structure be                                                               
very  stable and  that it  be able  to meet  its large  financial                                                               
obligations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
This power gives  Alaska Pipe the express authority  to agree (in                                                               
the  LLC agreement)  that it  would lose  some voting  rights, or                                                               
have  its  access  to confidential  information  curtailed  if  a                                                               
statute  is  passed  by  the legislature  that  has  a  "material                                                               
adverse  effect   on"  Alaska  Pipe's  ability   to  perform  its                                                               
obligations to the LLC, or to  another entity that owns a portion                                                               
of the project.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
She stressed  that the corporation  could not agree to  limit the                                                               
legislature's authority  to exercise  any form of  police powers,                                                               
and that  this provision  would not apply  if a  statutory change                                                               
came about  as the result of  an initiative, or in  response to a                                                               
final, non-appealable court order.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS asked  what assets  PipeCo owns  that would  be at                                                               
risk.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:31:32 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PORTER responded that, in terms  of this provision, it is its                                                               
ability  to participate  effectively  in  future decision  making                                                               
that is at risk.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:31:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked Mr.  Porter to step  back to  paragraph (19)                                                               
and explain what  PipeCo is indemnifying, and what  it is putting                                                               
up against indemnification.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:32:52 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER said that PipeCo  could agree to indemnify against its                                                               
own assets.  It could  not agree to  indemnify against  the other                                                               
assets of the state.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS responded  that  he is  trying  to identify  those                                                               
assets.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER said  that  he wanted  to  explain the  circumstances                                                               
under which this might occur and offered an example.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked whether it  should be made clear  in statute                                                               
that the state's assets could not be used.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:34:43 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER said  it would be helpful to move  forward to Sections                                                               
12-13,  page 27,  which also  address  indemnification. She  said                                                               
that the  current rule  is that, with  respect to  a construction                                                               
contract,  you cannot  indemnify the  operator against  liability                                                               
for damages. This  provision makes an exception to  that rule for                                                               
this project.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:38:16 PM                                                                                                                    
On a  project of this  magnitude, it is inevitable  that mistakes                                                               
will occur and will have to  be covered in some way. This section                                                               
allows the members  to take the liability  upon themselves rather                                                               
than paying the operators to bear that burden.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER returned  to the  powers  clause, Section  41.42.210,                                                               
page  10, which  gives the  overall power  to the  corporation to                                                               
enter  into indemnification  agreements.  The specific  agreement                                                               
that it will  have to enter into is with  the operators that will                                                               
build the pipeline.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS asked  Ms.  Cutler  to confirm  that  there is  no                                                               
indemnification for sole negligence or willful misconduct.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:39:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER said  that the legislation does allow for  it. It does                                                               
not  anticipate  covering  gross  negligence  or  misconduct  for                                                               
officers,  but  the  line employees  would  be  indemnified.  She                                                               
reiterated  that  with  thousands  of employees  working  on  the                                                               
project, such problems may occur and someone has to pay for it.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:40:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN said  that, as  she  understands it,  each of  the                                                               
partners would  be self-insured, but  the liability of  the state                                                               
would still be limited to its 20 percent ownership.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER agreed  and added  that it  would be  limited to  the                                                               
assets of Alaska Pipe.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:41:10 PM                                                                                                                    
She moved on to Section 41.42.220  on page 11, line 17, regarding                                                               
the creation  of subsidiary entities.  This section  gives Alaska                                                               
Pipe  the flexibility  to create  subsidiaries  according to  the                                                               
laws of  the jurisdiction in  which they  are formed in  order to                                                               
finance, own, or operate some portions of the project.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The  Alaska  Pipeline  Corporation  board  would  determine  what                                                               
assets  the subsidiaries  would own  and what  powers they  would                                                               
have. The  members of  the subsidiary boards  would serve  at the                                                               
pleasure of the Alaska Pipe board.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
She emphasized that  the subsidiaries cannot do  anything that is                                                               
not consistent with the purposes of the chapter.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:45:50 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PORTER  interjected that, in  the section  regarding material                                                               
adverse  effects  on page  11,  paragraph  (22), the  legislation                                                               
excepts a statutory  change made by initiative or  in response to                                                               
a non-appealable court order. He  asked the committee to consider                                                               
amending that  section to remove  the exception for  changes made                                                               
by initiative,  and pointed  out that it  makes no  difference to                                                               
our  partners  whether a  change  is  made through  the  people's                                                               
elected representatives  or by  initiative, if  the effect  is to                                                               
make   it  impossible   for  the   corporation  to   perform  its                                                               
obligations under  the contract, so  the ability to  restrict our                                                               
interests should be the same.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The  difficulty  is to  protect  the  initiative process  without                                                               
limiting the state's  authority to exercise. One  way to approach                                                               
it might  be to move the  reference to the initiative  process to                                                               
the last part of paragraph (22)  so that it says "the corporation                                                               
may not agree  to any terms that attempt to  limit the initiative                                                             
process or the legislature's authority  to exercise police powers                                                             
of the state".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:48:34 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER moved  on to Article 3. Financial  Provisions, on page                                                               
12. She  said that  this section is  a typical  bonding authority                                                               
except that  it also allows  the corporation to borrow  money and                                                               
incur other financing  obligations. It is the  notion that Alaska                                                               
Pipe will obtain commercial loans  that led the state's financial                                                               
advisers to suggest broadening this section.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
She  referred  the  committee  to  page  22,  line  28,  for  the                                                               
definition of "financing obligations".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Subsection (d),  page 16, lines  10-14 is a very  typical feature                                                               
referred to as  the "moral obligation" section. It  says that, at                                                               
the end of  the year, if the  reserve fund set up to  pay off the                                                               
bond issue is  low the legislature may choose  to appropriate the                                                               
funds. This  gives the  bond market  additional comfort  that the                                                               
legislature may bail the corporation out if necessary.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:53:48 PM                                                                                                                    
Article 4  begins on page 19  with the cash reserves  fund, which                                                               
is  established   in  the   corporation  to   accept  legislative                                                               
appropriations, other  assets, and  cash from other  sources. The                                                               
funds can  be pledged to the  payment of bonds, used  to secure a                                                               
line of  credit, to  meet capital calls,  or for  other financial                                                               
requirements of the corporation.  Withdrawals must be reported to                                                               
the governor and the legislature.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Section 41.42.410 was discussed earlier.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The  Political Activities  section  41.42.420  is important  with                                                               
respect to the  tax-exempt status of the  corporation under state                                                               
law. The definition  of political activities is  found in Section                                                               
41.42.900, paragraph (7), subparagraph (A) on page 23.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:55:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE  asked why  [in  Section  41.42.430] there  is  an                                                               
exemption from the State Procurement Code.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER replied that, as a  member of the LLC, the corporation                                                               
is making decisions  as part of a broader ownership  team that is                                                               
not subject to the procurement code.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:56:46 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER resumed on Section  41.42.440, page 19, which provides                                                               
that  the  operations  of  the corporation  are  not  subject  to                                                               
certain  laws, and  offered a  brief explanation  of each  of the                                                               
laws listed in the section.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:01:18 PM                                                                                                                    
Article  5,  Section  41.42.500,   page  20,  requires  that  the                                                               
corporation provide  quarterly financial statements to  LB&A, and                                                               
allows LB&A  to conduct  audits of Alaska  Pipe and  any entities                                                               
wholly owned by Alaska Pipe.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 41.42.510  requires that  the legislature,  the governor,                                                               
and  the  public, receive  an  annual  report written  in  easily                                                               
understandable  English.   A  summary  of  the   report  must  be                                                               
published in  at least  one newspaper  in each  judicial district                                                               
and made available to the public on the Internet.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:03:37 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 41.42.520 on  page 21 deals with the  Public Records Act.                                                               
It provides that  Alaska Pipe is subject to the  act except that,                                                               
in addition to  any of the current exemptions  under AS 40.25.110                                                               
and 40.25.120, the  explicit types of information  listed in this                                                               
section are not subject to disclosure under those statutes.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:06:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  CUTLER  continued  that  lines  27-29  make  it  clear  that                                                               
information that  is considered  confidential under  this section                                                               
may  be  disclosed  to  the   governor,  the  legislature,  or  a                                                               
legislative committee.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:07:11 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON prefaced  his question by saying  that the language                                                               
on page 21, lines 14-16 seems  too broad. It appears to allow the                                                               
corporation to make an agreement with  an owner or entity to keep                                                               
anything confidential, even something  that is embarrassing, or a                                                               
bad action  that was corrected.  He asked  Ms. Cutler if  that is                                                               
correct.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER replied that, although it  could be read that way, and                                                               
it  does  not  expressly  say that  you  cannot  keeps  something                                                               
confidential to avoid embarrassment,  the intent of the provision                                                               
is  to make  it  clear that  language  that will  be  in the  LLC                                                               
agreement regarding confidentiality remains confidential.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:10:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   ELTON  commented   that  this   section  contains   six                                                               
paragraphs that deal with  trade secrets, proprietary information                                                               
and information  that would effect  the competitive  position. It                                                               
seems as  if the things that  could be hurtful to  another entity                                                               
are covered  in the  other paragraphs and  that paragraph  (4) is                                                               
unnecessarily broad.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER  said that the state  and the producers come  from two                                                               
different worlds.  The state is  in a world where  information is                                                               
public  unless  specifically  identified as  confidential.  In  a                                                               
private   corporation,   information   is   confidential   unless                                                               
specifically identified  as public. The administration  is trying                                                               
to wed those  two viewpoints in the LLC, so  that the other three                                                               
entities don't  exclude us from  their communications,  making us                                                               
an ineffective fourth participant.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:12:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON said  that he understands how awkward  that can be,                                                               
but  wondered if,  for  example, paragraph  (4)  would allow  the                                                               
corporation to have  an agreement with another  owner entity that                                                               
would preclude the  release of information on  how many employees                                                               
are Alaskan residents.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER  said  that  particular   issue  is  covered  in  the                                                               
contractual provisions  that protect it.  It would be  helpful to                                                               
identify a  scenario in  which there  is not  another contractual                                                               
protection right, but that Senator Elton is correct in concept.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:15:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SEEKINS  said that  the entities  cannot hold  any criminal                                                               
activity  confidential, or  any activity  that is  required under                                                               
federal or state law to be  disclosed. He said that the committee                                                               
is trying to reach a  reasonable requirement for confidentiality,                                                               
rather than looking for extremes.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER  wondered  whether   she  went  too  quickly  through                                                               
subsection (c), because  it specifically identifies circumstances                                                               
in which  confidential information  may be  disclosed, including:                                                               
for the purposes of law  enforcement; for a confidential briefing                                                               
of  the governor,  legislature,  or a  legislative committee;  in                                                               
response to  an administrative or  court order; when  required by                                                               
lenders  or  potential  lenders;  an  in the  case  of  a  public                                                               
offering  of bonds,  if such  disclosure  is required  by law  or                                                               
market practice and all owner entities are notified.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
She reiterated that  the administration is trying to  find a good                                                               
balance between confidentiality and public disclosure.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS suggested that on page  21, line 31, the word "and"                                                               
should be changed to "or".                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:15:45 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. CUTLER  commented that subsection  (b), page 21,  lines 21-24                                                               
expressly states  that the Public  Records Act does not  apply to                                                               
the LLC  or any other  owner entity.  It applies to  Alaska Pipe,                                                               
but  not to  any of  the private  organizations that  Alaska Pipe                                                               
will become involved with.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:16:45 PM                                                                                                                    
Section  41.42.530, page  22,  specifies that  the  OMA does  not                                                               
apply to  the meetings of  the LLC or  any other owner  entity of                                                               
the project.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:17:26 PM                                                                                                                    
The  definition  of  "unincorporated  business  association"  was                                                               
pulled  out of  Section  41.42.900  and is  covered  on page  24,                                                               
paragraph (10) on lines 2-6.  This was done primarily because the                                                               
state  does not  know what  type of  entity will  be required  in                                                               
Canada.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:19:32 PM                                                                                                                    
Section  3 on  page 24  is a  conforming amendment  regarding the                                                               
procurement code exemption.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER  explained that  Section 4  amends AS  37.10.085(a) to                                                               
provide for a specific exemption,  so there won't be any question                                                               
that Alaska Pipe has the  statutory authority to buy a membership                                                               
interest  in the  project, lend  its credit  for the  use of  the                                                               
corporation, or borrow money for the use of a corporation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:20:49 PM                                                                                                                    
Article 7  on page  25, establishes a  construction loan  fund in                                                               
DOR. It allows the  state to lend money to Alaska  Pipe or to one                                                               
of  its  subsidiaries instead  of  making  a cash  appropriation.                                                               
Canadian  counsel is  particularly  interested  in this  section,                                                               
because it might  make more sense with regard to  taxes and other                                                               
laws in Canada,  for the state, rather than Alaska  Pipe, to loan                                                               
money to an Alaska Pipe subsidiary.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:22:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN  asked  if  this  could lead  to  some  form  of                                                               
fractured management, in terms of responsibility.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER responded that this is mainly a financing vehicle.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said that the point  of his comment is that we've                                                               
had problems in  the past because no one  took responsibility for                                                               
issues  that   arose.  It  is   important  that  one   entity  be                                                               
responsible.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS said it appears  that the commissioner is acting as                                                               
a banker.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER  agreed  and  added  that it  does  not  provide  the                                                               
commissioner  with  any  additional  management  responsibilities                                                               
aside from those he has as a member of the Alaska Pipe board.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS clarified that his  responsibility would be to loan                                                               
the money, establish the conditions, and collect it.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. CUTLER said that is correct.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:24:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  asked if  the commissioner  could loan  money, not                                                               
only to PipeCo, but also to a private entity.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER replied  that the  language allows  for the  state to                                                               
loan money directly to a subsidiary entity.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEEKINS  asked Ms. Cutler if  he is correct in  saying that                                                               
no  funds exist  until there  has  been an  appropriation by  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER answered  yes, that  the state  could also  put other                                                               
kinds of  assets into the  fund, just like  they can in  the cash                                                               
reserve fund.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEEKINS asked  if  this  is used  to  acquire the  state's                                                               
ownership in the pipeline, not someone else's.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER said  it does not preclude  financing another entity's                                                               
ownership, but that it isn't anticipated.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  suggested that the  committee flag this  issue for                                                               
further discussion.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER said he does not  have a good understanding of exactly                                                               
what the committee's concern is.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER  added  that  what   it  allows  is  acquisition  and                                                               
financing  of  an  "ownership  interest"   in  the  project.  She                                                               
directed the committee to the  definition of "ownership interest"                                                               
on page  23, lines 6-8,  which read  "an interest in  the project                                                               
acquired by  either the corporation  or a subsidiary  entity," so                                                               
the intent is clearly to finance the state's interests.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:28:56 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 7, 39.25.110(11), page 26,  puts employees of Alaska Pipe                                                               
into the exempt service.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Sections 8-9  state that the  executive director,  the employees,                                                               
and  board members,  must comply  with  the financial  disclosure                                                               
requirements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Section 10 excludes  the governing body of  subsidiaries from the                                                               
Ethics Act.  It does not  exclude Alaska Pipe board  members, and                                                               
would  not exclude  board members  of subsidiaries  if they  were                                                               
also board members  of Alaska Pipe. This addresses  the fact that                                                               
Canada may have ethics rules that are different from ours.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Sections 11, 12, and 13 were discussed earlier.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:30:51 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 14 provides for an immediate effective date.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER said that, if  the committee assumes that this project                                                               
is moving forward any time soon,  this needs to be passed and the                                                               
entity set up now  in order to be ready by  the time the contract                                                               
is signed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:32:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE commented  that there is a  substantial fiscal note                                                               
and  asked   if  the  administration   is  suggesting   that  the                                                               
legislature  begin  setting this  up  before  the public  comment                                                               
period is over and before the legislature ratifies the contract.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PORTER replied  yes,  regardless of  what  happens with  the                                                               
contract, the state  needs a dedicated team to  move the pipeline                                                               
project forward,  similar to  what ANGDA is  doing with  the spur                                                               
line.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He  reminded the  committee that  $1.5 million  has already  been                                                               
funded  to hire  people for  PipeCo, but  the administration  has                                                               
waited  to hire  until  an appropriate  time.  In particular,  it                                                               
wanted  the  board to  be  in  place  first,  to choose  its  own                                                               
executive director.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said that  concerns him,  because the  contract is                                                               
not guaranteed, and the only  justification for moving forward is                                                               
that the  administration has  been working on  the project  for a                                                               
couple of years. He wondered why  the legislature should set up a                                                               
bureaucracy to do what the administration is already doing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:34:08 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PORTER replied  that he and others have spent  the past three                                                               
years  working  on this  project,  putting  in 12-13  hour  days,                                                               
working  weekends and  holidays, and  frequently away  from home.                                                               
He  feels strongly  that  it is  time  to hire  a  staff that  is                                                               
dedicated to this project, not working  two jobs at one time, and                                                               
who have  the expertise  to stand  on an  equal footing  with the                                                               
producers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:35:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON said  that  the fiscal  note  indicates that  $2.5                                                               
million  will be  required in  fiscal year  2007, and  attributes                                                               
that to  Alaska Pipeline Corporation receipts.  His assumption is                                                               
that, for  the first  two or  three years,  the receipts  will be                                                               
General Fund  appropriations, so he  wondered why the  funds were                                                               
not just identified as General Fund instead of Alaska Pipe Corp.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER  replied that there are  a couple of ways  to approach                                                               
it. One would be to allocate  a portion of the approximately $300                                                               
million appropriation to  Alaska Housing Development Corporation,                                                               
for purposes  of handling  this issue. There  is also  about $4.8                                                               
million in ANGDA that needs to be moved over next year.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:37:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WAGONER  asked if  the  other  LLCs require  that  board                                                               
members be Alaskan residents.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.   CUTLER  replied   that  AHFC   imposes  certain   residency                                                               
requirements, although  she did  not know specifically  what they                                                               
were, and the Alaska Railroad allows  two members of the board to                                                               
be non-residents. She thought that  neither AIDA nor the PFC have                                                               
residency requirements,  but offered to get  the board additional                                                               
information on this matter.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:38:47 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE commented  that it  seems ironic  that, while  the                                                               
state is leaning  on the sponsors to hire  Alaskans and insisting                                                               
that  the contractors  hire Alaskans,  it is  not requiring  that                                                               
PipeCo do so.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PORTER said that all of  the people on his list of candidates                                                               
for the board are residents, but that  it might be wise to have a                                                               
member from Canada on the team.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUTLER  pointed  out that,  with  respect  to  subsidiaries,                                                               
regardless of how the legislature  decides to approach the Alaska                                                               
Pipe board in  terms of residency requirements, it  needs to keep                                                               
in mind that there may be other legal requirements in Canada.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR OLSON suggested inviting someone from the North Slope                                                                   
Borough to testify before the committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:42:59 PM Adjourned.                                                                                                         

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